Wednesday, April 14, 2010

Gatsby Fishbowl #7: Chapter 8


Reminder: If you're not caught up with the reading, take this time to read quietly. When you are caught up, add an extended comment with a textual passage to this blog; e-mail your comment to me as well.


For those of you who ARE participating today, remember that you're aiming to bring in a passage or two from the reading. Take your time with your comments and explore your thoughts carefully.


You're almost through the end of The Great Gatsby--finish strong!

47 comments:

  1. I don't think that the pool represents Daisy like they are discussing in the inner circle, because unlike Daisy, Gatsby didn't get to spend much time around the pool all summer and it almost seems like he forgot about the pool. It is clear that Daisy is constantly on Gatsby's mind and she gives him joy and I just don't see any of these relating to the pool.

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  2. I think that Gatsby didn't want to empty the pool because the pool represents the summer and his parties with all the people and when the pool is drained he becomes lonely because he is drained of his "friends" and social interaction.

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  3. Throughout most of the book Gatsby has been this nice easy going guy.On page 152 you see the jealous side of Gatsby, he has everything but all he wants is Daisy. "'Of course she might have loved him just for minute, when they were first married-- and loved me more even then, do you see?'" (152). How come Fitzgerald waits this long to bring out the dark side of Gatsby. Also how come if he has been a good guy why bring out this side now?

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  4. I agree with Angelica. I think that to Wilson Dr. T.J. Eckleberg represents god. I think that since the accident Wilson has kind of lost his mind, he talks about an advertisement as if its god and then at the end of the chapter he walks from door to door looking in peoples garages trying to find a yellow car.

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  5. On page 161 Gatsby says: "Don't do it today" as in don't drain the pool. Why do you think that Gatsby doesn't want the pool drained?

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  6. I think the changes of weather represent the changes of the mood of the story because whenever there is a sad mood it seems like it is raining or something like that. When all of them went to town they were all in a good mood the weather was very sunny and hot

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  7. Karly, I don't think Fitzgerald meant to relate the pool so closely to Daisy either. It seems like they only talked about the pool and how he did not want to drain it, they were only foreshadowing into Gatsby's death. That way wheen they described him being dead in the pool it was like one of those moments where the reader goes, "oh ya, I remember the pool."

    "with little ripples that were hardly the shadows of waves, the laden mattress moved irregularly down the pool... a thin read circle in the water." (162)

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  8. Karly, i agree with you. he told his gardener that he wanted to keep the pool full for another day because he didn't get to go for a swim yet since it was filled for the summer. Maybe he feels like he has Daisy all to himself so his mind was able to focus on other things like going for a swim.

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  9. I think Fitzgerald brings out the bad side of Gatsby to show that he's not as perfect as you think.

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  10. Corbin, I think that the reason that this passage is so out of character for Gatsby is because Fitzgerald is trying to show Gatsby's obsession with Daisy in a different way. Up until this point his obsession was kept a secret from everyone except for Nick, and now he is finally sharing it before his near death.

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  11. Alex, I think Fitzgerald showed the bad side of Gatsby that way the readers of his book can relate that same concept to their own lives and how people seem perfect but are never really perfect. Gatsby represents a bigger symbol.

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  12. do you think that Daisy would inherit Gatsby's money? and would she go back to her old life

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  13. Christian-
    I definatley think there is a different side to Gatsby because since the day he became Jay Gatsby there has been a different side to his life so why wouldn't there be one now.

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  14. I think that Fitzgerald is bringing out Gatsby's dark side now because he is foreshadowing something bad to come. I think that something is going to go wrong and Gatsby wont get Daisy. I think that Gatsby knows this and is in denial telling himself that she loved him more all that time. But deep down I think that he can feel that something will go wrong.

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  15. On page 159 Gatsby says, "I don't think she ever loved him." I was confused about if Daisy really loved Tom or not because when they were in town and Tom and Gatsby were fighting over Daisy, it seemed liked Tom was forcing Daisy to say she loved him. So do you think she really loved Tom?

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  16. Good comments thus far...

    Here's my question to the outer circle: Why did Daisy go back to Tom?

    Here's my reminder to the outer circle: Part of your job, so there shouldn't be any talking. This is especially important if your name is Chris or Beau.

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  17. How do you think Daisy will react when she hears that Gatsby got murdered? What will happen next in the book? Will she stay with Tom?

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  18. Christian, I think that we found everything out about Gatsby before his death. His life seems so simple because he has based everything he does on getting Daisy. Although he seemed like an incredibly mysterious and intricate character at the beginning of the story, I think by the time he dies we know everything there is to know about him.

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  19. Mr. Wilson came to the conclusion, after talking to Michaelis about Myrtle, that whoever murdered Myrtle must have been the person she was having an affair with. since he knew Tom was driving the blue car on the way back, he found out that Gatsby was in the yellow car. Because of this Wilson shot Gatsby, ironically because of how all of the affairs come together at this point in the story

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  20. what do you think would have happened if Mr. Wilson found out Daisy was the one driving? Would he still seek revenge on Daisy?

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  21. Dana-
    I totally agree with you that Fitzgerald shows the bad side of Gatsby so the readers can relate. Another example would be how Fitzgerald shows how bad Gatsby wants Daisy to make the reader relate to something or someone in their lives that they want so bad, but can't have it.

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  22. I think she stays with Tom because she does mention that she does love him. Also during this time it was said that divorce is frowned upon, so if she divorced Tom and then married Gatsby she would be a social outcast.

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  23. From the very beginning of the book, I have thought that Gatsby was the man that Fitzgerald wanted to be. I am still fairly confident of this but it is a little confusing that Gatsby is shot and killed for a false reason. This is an awfully abrupt way to end the idealistic life of the author and the main character.

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  24. Ms Leclaire, I think Daisy goes back to Tom because she is a very conservative person. She doesn't want to be looked down upon in society. She knows what her life would be like with Tom and is content with it. She doesn't want to take th risk in going with gatsby.

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  25. who do you think told Wilson that Daisy killed Myrtle?

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  26. I think Daisy went back to Tom because of how Tom displayed his affection for her when he fought Gatsby. He told Daisy that he would try harder to make their marriage work, and Daisy realized that her romance with Gatsby was nothing more than a flirtatious relationship from the past that had no future.

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  28. Miss Leclaire, I think that Daisy returns to Tom because he has been her stability for so long. He supports her with his money and social standing and being the father of her child. Although she thought that she was in love with Gatsby, I think that she realized that he was nothing but an adventure for her and it was time to return to her husband.

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  29. I kind of have a feeling Daisy wont stay with Tom after finding out Gatsby has been murdered. I think being with Gatsby made her realize how unhappy she was with Tom and she wont be able to go back to him, especially after losing Gatsby.

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  30. Beau- I think Daisy will stay with Tom when she finds out because she has no other choice. I also think that Daisy is going to think Tom killed Gatsby. Maybe Daisy kills Tom?

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  31. Beau, for some reason I think that Daisy will go back to Tom or even someone different because when Gatsby was gone for the war she went for Tom and now that Gatsby is gone again I think she is doomed to repeat history.

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  32. I think Daisy goes back to Tom because she isn't a great risk taker and leaving Tom would be a great risk because it was hard, during this time period, for women to support themselves and if she left Tom she would be frowned upon by society. Also, she doesn't think she can live up to Gatsby's dream of her.

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  33. Alex, I also think that it finally shows that then Gatsby died, everything he had been working for died too. He worked his whole life to get Daisy back and in the end all of that feel through anyway, after all those years of waiting and trying. No one can get what they really CAN'T get no matter how hard they try.

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  34. I agree with Corbin i think Daisy stayed with Tom because it does say that she once loved him and still does. On page 159 it says, "There was a wholesome bulkiness about his (Tom) person and his position and Daisy was flattered." This shows that she still finds Tom attractive and still loves him.

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  35. My gold star question for the audience:

    The final line of chapter 8 reads, "And the holocaust was complete." Look up what the word "holocaust" means (aside from its WWII connotations), and argue why Fitzgerald would choose this word to describe what has happened in Chapter 8.

    Good luck!

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  36. It is sad that he devoted his life to that women, we argued about whether she loved Tom or Gatsby but the real question is whether or not she could love anyone but herself. Gatsby did everything he could to protect her and how did she repay him? By watching him pay for her mistakes and letting Tom point Wilson at him. The most powerful point this book makes is that we are all alone and the moment you think someone could love you completely is the moment you die even if your body lives on. This is Fitzgerald's final word on love and it is heartbreaking to see into the shell that he lived in.

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  37. I believe that Daisy goes back to Gatsby, because she herself is not pure. Nor is anyone in the book. In chapter 6 and 7 we find that Gatsby is not the perfect man described in the first few chapter. Daisy can simply not make up her mind and is easily swayed with persuasion from either men.

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  38. Gatsby attempts to achieve the American dream of wealth and happiness. I feel Fitzgerald is portraying his views of the American dream through Gatsby. He is on his way to getting Daisy and he ends up losing her. Fitzgerald makes the American dream seem impossible and thinks it isn't about the money or wealth, but the happiness.

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  39. Before Nick leaves Gatsby's house he says, "'You're worth the whole damn bunch put together.' I've always been glad I said that. It was the only compliment I ever gave him, because I disapproved of him from beginning to end" (Fitzgerald 162).

    Why is it that this is the only compliment that Nick ever gave Gatsby? Do you think before this part of the story that Nick disapproved of him?

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  40. Nick, I agree I think that Daisy is selfish and really only cares about herself. I don't think she loves Gatsby or Tom. I think she lusts them for their money. If she really loved Gatsby I don't think she would have let him take the fall for what she did.

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  41. I believe that tom told Wilson to get back at Gatsby but i don't think that he wanted it to go this far.

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  42. I agree with Chris I think Gatsby was a character Fitzgerald wished he could be, and i think the reason Fitzgerald "killed him" was because Gatsby died protecting Daisy and maybe thats something Fitzgerald respected about Gatsby's character. Gatsby dying is kind of like a symbol of how much he cared and loved Daisy.

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  43. Karly- I think that this is the first time Nick feels even with Gatsby, he feels like a friend to him, not a follower of Gatsby. Also I think that Nick knows who Gatsby is, there is no more mystery to Gatsby for Nick. So when he said that compliment to Gatsby he knew it was true.

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  44. I think he used the word holocaust because it had seemed like everyone had finally gotten their revenge. Wilson had killed who he thought Myrtle was cheating on, and in that same way Tom no longer had to worry about Gatsby. Tom's mistress was now dead so he could focus on Daisy again

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  45. What is the significance of the pool? Gatsby’s mentions how he doesn’t use it very often then goes in and tells everyone to just let him be outside. Wilson comes and shoots Gatsby before shooting himself. “ A small gust of wind that scarcely corrugated the surface was enough to disturb its accidental course with its accidental burden. The touch of a cluster of leaves resolved it slowly, tracing, like the leg of transit, a thin red circle in the water” (pg 162 Fitzgerald). The burden that he is talking about is the mistake that Wilson assumed that it was Gatsby driving his car and Tom influencing him to think it was Gatsby even though he wasn’t sure. He does this because he thinks that he was the one who ran over Myrtle and didn’t stop. He wasn’t the one though who killed her it was Daisy. Daisy and Gatsby had just gotten back to where they used to be and were confessing their love for each other. Gatsby had spent an entire night hiding at Toms just so that he could make sure that Daisy was ok and Tom wasn’t going to do anything.

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  46. I think the significance of the pool was that he looked like he was full and fun, like the pool but really he was empty and no one ever wanted to be with him, just like the pool was never used and was empty of people in it, like in Gatsby's life. Also I was wondering, if Daisy running over Myrtel was an accident why didn't Daisy try to stop the car or do something it seems like she just hit her with no hesitation.

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