Friday, April 2, 2010

Gatsby Fishbowl #5: Chapter 5


Hello, outer circle!


You have a challenge today! You must incorporate AT LEAST ONE QUOTATION into at least one of your responses to Chapter 5 today. This will make you both feel and appear quite intelligent.


Enjoy! Remember that you're aiming for 4 or 5 thoughtful comments here. If you do not have a reading ticket, you need to be taking notes right now; respond to the blog later when you are caught up with the reading.

88 comments:

  1. It reveals that she is not happy It shows that she misses Gatsby the man she was truly suppose to be with. She feels as if this was the last resort and her only time to be happy was over with.

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  2. I think note might represent her attachment to Gatsby. She still doesn't want to let go of him.

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  3. How come in this time period women had to put on a mask and lie and men can be who they are?

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  4. Well I'm going to agree with Andrew because she had wanted to change her mind, so maybe the letter she held was from gatsby reminding her of what had been and wanting to turn back. But this was something she had to do.

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  5. I think Daisy married Tom because she would be happy and rich like what Sam said. And she realized that Gatsby was gone and was fighting in the war.

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  6. I agree with Jake, at the time before the marriage she realized that she wouldn't be truly happy with Tom and regretted the fact that she agreed to marry him, when she still had feelings for Gatsby.

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  7. I think that Daisy married Tom for a feeling of personal security and social status. She doesn't seem like a strong willed person and in marrying Tom, she would ensure that she would not have to work for a living.

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  8. I agree with Xavia. Gatsby is not quiet. he is just more of an observer. He is watching over.

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  9. I think that she married Tom because she doesn't know if Gatsby is going to come back alive. Also, I feel like she wanted a safety net.

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  10. During this time period women had to lie to men because they need a husband to support them because during this time period there weren't many jobs for women that would allow them to support themselves.

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  11. I agree with Sam and how that she is the type of person who marries for money to have the perfect American dream life, and she drinks to repress her feeling for Gatsby.

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  12. Good question Corbin, but it may be obvious that men had more rights than women. Women were expected to be these mild and quiet people who did what they were told and men were the ones that still needed to follow the 'rules" but had more freedom in what they did.

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  14. I agree with Natalie. I think she married Tom because she didn't know if Gatsby was going to return from the war. He was her second option and had lots of money to support her and all her needs.

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  15. What do you think the quote "I'm the shiek of Araby, your love belongs to me, at night when you're asleep, into your tent I'll creep" means?

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  16. I agree with Aaron. Daisy probably thought at the time this was the only way she would be happy/successful. This shows Daisy's weaknesses. She can't make a living for her own so it brings her unhappiness.

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  17. Alex, do you think that women sometimes want to feel like they are taken care of and they lean on their husbands and count on them to support them like today in these times?

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  18. Corbin- I think men still wear a mask, because Tom is cheating on his wife and it seems like he doesn't want be with Daisy. And it seems like he lives to lives between Daisy and Myrtle.

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  19. I also agree with Xavia that men had more rights. During this time period men could do more extreme things than women and still be accepted in society.

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  20. I think that Daisy married Tom so that she could have a sense of security or be able to live without worry. She would always have money and always have a husband to fall back on. It would also help her social status in that she would have a wealthy husband so she would be looked at as a wealthy, successful and happy person.

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  21. One thing that I noticed in chapter 5 is that Gatsby wanted to invite Daisy to have tea. This is a change of pace from the whole book because the only other drink mentioned was alcohol. I think that is symbolizing that this meeting, so far, is the only thing pure throughout the whole book. If you think about it, at Tom's party everyone was drinking and the whole setting of the party was fake. And all of Gatsby's parties seemed fake to me in that none of the guests really knew eachother and no one really knew the purpose. Gatsby's meeting with Daisy is the only thing genuine that has happened.

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  22. Dana- I think that women long to be taken care of and supported and that is that makes Daisy marry Tom. He symbolizes stability for her.

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  23. do you think Daisy is mad at nick for setting up the meeting with Gatsby.

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  24. "Five years next November." Said Gatsby...Don't you think this is creepy? How do you think Daisy felt about this? If someone told me this I would think they were a creep any ideas?

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  25. In chapter five how come when Nick calls Daisy to come over for tea and Nick says don't invite Tome
    "'Don't bring Tom,' warned her.
    'What?'
    'Don't bring tom.'
    'Who is 'Tom'?' she asked innocently"
    How come Daisy pretends to not know Tom?

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  26. Daisy shows that she really did love Gatsby and that she was marrying Nick just to do what society wanted. "She began to cry--she cried and cried... ... She wouldn't let go of the letter" (p.81). Daisy still loved Gatsby and she cried because she realized that she loved Gatsby and didn't love Nick. She only was marrying Nick because thats what society wanted.

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  27. The meeting between Gatsby and Daisy was inevitable, was it a good idea?

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  28. Beau i was thinking the same thing! If somebody that i had not seen for 5 years told me the exact time we hung out last, i would definitely be a little creeped out.

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  29. Brian- I think that Daisy was trying to run away from Gatsby and push him out of her life and when Nick set up the meeting she like freaked out because she was trying to forget about him. Gatsby on the other hand, is still in love with her, and I think that kind of freaked her out.
    "He hadn't once ceased looking at Daisy..."

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  30. Beau- I agree that Gatsby seems very creepy in this quote. I think that Daisy didn't see it as creepy though, but more as thoughtful and it showed her how much he really still cares for her. My guess is she probably remembers this also.

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  31. Brain, at first I think Daisy is just shocked to see Gatsby, since it has been so long. But I don't think Daisy is mad i think she is just mad at herself because she didn't wait for her true love and now she is stuck with Tom.

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  32. I think Gatsby was trying to convince Daisy to leave Tom for him. But I don't think they talked very much because of the emotional intensity of the moment (first time seeing each other in five years).

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  33. I think that they were happy tears because she hasn't seen him in so long and she is glad he is there. They also could be sad tears because she was sad that she still didn't have him.

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  34. Brian- I don't think Daisy was mad at Nick. I think she was more curious of why he invited her to tea. I think once she found out the reason she was invited she was happy. She didn't even know he was alive and now they can catch up on things and reconcile their love.

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  35. What do you think Daisy said to Gatsby toward the end of the chapter when Nick explains, "His hand took hold of hers, and as she said something low in his ear he turned toward her with a rush of emotion." (Fitzgerald, 96)

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  36. "The day agreed upon was pouring rain." It seems like Fitzgerald keeps coming back to the fact that it was raining outside, he says it a number of times. Why do you think he does this?

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  37. I agree with Alex on the inner circle that Gatsby's house resembles him. His house is elegant and seems very rich, but it makes you wonder what is going on behind closed doors. I think that is how Gatsby is also. He comes off as a very elegant man, but who is he really?

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  38. I think his house is more of who Daisy is not him. that is more of who daisy wants him to be and not actually who he is.

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  39. I think Daisy and Gatsby reuniting is going to force Daisy into divorcing Tom because she will remember how much she likes him. At the end of the chapter it hints that they might have had an affair. Daisy will be mad at Nick at the start just because of the drama it's going to cause but in the end she will be happy because she is with the love of her life. What do you think about what is going to happen with Daisy and Gatsby?

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  40. Trace, I think Fitzgerald is foreshadowing some sad days to come. Maybe he is saying that if Gatsby and Daisy get together someone is going to get hurt and we just don't know who it is yet

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  41. Daisy seems just as easy to forget Tom as he is to forget her.
    " 'Don't bring Tom,' I warned her.
    'What?'
    'Don't Bring Tom.'
    'Who is 'Tom'?' she asked..." (Fitzgerald 88).
    So just as Tom does with Mertyl, Daisy completely denies his existence.

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  42. "there such beautiful shirts" she sobbed, her voice muffled in the thick folds."it makes me sad because I've never seen such-such beautiful shirts before."(92)
    why did she think the shirts were so beautiful and what did they mean to her?

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  43. Trace- I think fitzgerald is just trying to make it a love story. The rain makes a dramatic effect.

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  44. I believe that Fitzgerald made the night of the meeting a rainy night to symbolize the tears cried by both Gatsby and Daisy. The rain represents the gloom finally being let out and the rain was the gloom leaving the sky.

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  45. Karly- I think that Gatsby hides behind his house, and there is this image of him being this great guy who is so incredible (just like his house) but I think on the inside, that's not how he is, that's just how he wants to come off like.

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  46. Andrew- I agree with you, i think Daisy wants to keep Tom out of this "second life" she is trying to create for herself, just like Tom does with myrtle

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  47. I think that Daisy is still unsure about whether or not she still loves Gatsby. She acts as though she is having fun and enjoying catching up with Gatsby, but at the end of the chapter, Nick says that, "They had forgotten me but Daisy glanced up and held out her hand; Gatsby didn't know me now at all.(pg. 102)" I think that statement shows that Daisy is not nearly as wrapped up in Gatsby as Gatsby is with her.

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  48. I mostly agree with Elizabeth. The tears from Daisy, I believe, are happy tears. The tears symbolize her actual feelings coming out. She has a mask on and the tears are flowing over her fake mask. She still loves Gatsby and I think this proves it

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  49. Andrew- I think she only "forgot" Tom because she was bitter that he cheated on her and she actually enjoyed being away from him.

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  50. Mallory-
    I dunno exactly what she said but i feel like she said something that was an immediate remembrance of the past, that in turn invocked a major emotional response from Gatsby.

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  51. What is the American dream? Do you think Gatsby is living it, with his lifestyle? Do you think Daisy is Gatsby's dream?

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  52. Natalie, Daisy doesn't know that Gatsby is going to be there when she says that. Is Daisy trying to create a second life with her Nick at first?

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  53. Gatsby awkwardly knocks over Nick's clock.
    "Luckily the clock took this moment to tilt dangerously at the pressure of his head, whereupon he turned and caught it with trembling fingers and set it back in place" (Fitzgerald 91). Gatsby is very nervous around Daisy at first but when Nick returns Gatsby is happy and Daisy has tears of joy. Gatsby's posture of luxury and wealth diminishes to show how he is falling for Daisy.

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  54. I agree with Jeff that if Daisy is the same girl he fell in love with before then I believe he will feel truly happy and he will not be in his big house alone. then he would have achieved his dream.

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  55. Gatsby's house reflects him in the sense that both are empty, but pretending to be strong,full and content. Also his house is white, which could represent vacancy. Gatsby is heartbroken. When your heart breaks it leaves a void that can never be filled, it is a wound that will not stop hurting until it heals. As long as Gatsby stays in love with Daisy and is unable to have her, his heart will not heal.

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  56. Mallory- I think that the green light kind of represents Gatsby's dream. I think it also represents the American dream to in a way.

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  57. I agree with Nowlan, I think that the rain symbolizes the purification of Gatsby and Daisy's conscience after five long years of wondering what could have been.

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  58. The American Dream;
    classic white picket fence, big house big yard, two kids, trophy wife, a doggy and a porch with two rocking chairs on it.

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  59. do you think that Fitzgerald and Zelda had true love? and how does this relate to Gatsby.

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  60. Mallory
    I think the American dream is being rich (having a big house, nice car, spending money, partying, having a family, and being happy.) I think Gatsby is living the American dream with everything but happiness. He is trying to complete it by getting with Daisy.

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  61. I feel that the love between Gatsby and Daisy is true but unachievable. I feel that they both want to love each other but because of what they both have become it won't be possible for each other to be together again. I also believe that Daisy has been so transformed by life without Gatsby that she will not be able to be the same girl that Gatsby fell in love with long ago. Tom has changed her.

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  62. I agree with Nowlan. I think Fitzgerald made the night a rainy night to symbolize a flood of emotions from Daisy and Gatsby. The rain was their tears and once they got over the emotional part of the reunion the sky cleared up, "It's stopped raining." "...there were twinkle-bells of sunshine in the room..."(page 94)

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  63. I think it's weird how Gatsby thinks that Daisy is absolutely perfect for him, like Jeff said. What if Daisy doesn't live up to his expectations when their "butterfly effect" wears off? Because Nick doesn't see how Daisy could possibly live up to his expectations.

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  64. "Daisy put her arm through his abruptly but he seemed absorbed in what he had just said. Possibly it had occurred to him that the colossal significance of that light had now vanished forever. Compared to the great distance that had separated him from Daisy it had seemed very near to her, almost touching her" (Fitzgerald 98).

    At this point in the story how do you think Daisy is feeling? Do you think she feels as close to him as he does to her?

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  65. I think Gatsby shows how you can't really ever actually have the American dream, how he's always going to want Daisy but can't have her, so he'll never be really happy. Which is sad. :"(

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  66. I agree with what Samantha said in the inner circle. Daisy was just a pretender. She only married Tom because she wanted to have a high social status. She masked her face and married Tom because she wanted people to see her as good.
    She was in love with Gatsby, but he was in the war so was she going to be patient and wait until the war was over? Did she know that Gatsby was going to come back and be rich and still love her? I don't feel as though Daisy truly loves Tom because she married him when she was drunk, she didn't know what she wanted.
    I don't feel sorry for Daisy, I am disappointed in her. In chapter 5, when Daisy sees Gatsby again, on page 94 Gatsby asks Daisy what she thinks about the fact that it stopped raining, the reply is "'I'm glad, Jay.' Her throat, full of aching, grieving beauty, told only of her unexpected joy." She's joyful because she had not seen Gatsby in a long time and she knows she still loves him, and the meeting she has with him makes her realize she loves him more.
    I think she is upset with the outcome of her life. She realizes that her life could have been so much better with Gatsby. So I think that maybe what will happen later on in the book is Daisy will stop caring about Tom and love Gatsby... But then again this is a murder, you never know how this is going to end up.
    About the American Dream, I feel like that Gatsby is trying all these things to try and make himself truly happy. He has many expensive things which make people seem happy, but he is not truly happy inside.
    My question is how much does Gatsby really love her? Will he go to THE FULL extent to have her? Even though she's already taken? What will Gatsby do himself to have Daisy in order to make himself happy? Is Daisy THE ONLY possession that can make Gatsby truly happy?
    I want to know what Gatsby will do for Daisy. I want to know just how far he will go.

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  67. Why do you think Gatsby regretted his decision about having Daisy come and meet him, "Oh God!" in a miserable way. "This is a terrible mistake," he said, shaking his head from side to side,"a terrible, terrible mistake." (Fitzgerald, 87)

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  68. The passage "...so I drove back to West Egg Village to search for her among soggy whitewashed alleys and to buy some cups and lemons and flowers" shows the way he feels about the West Egg. It's not the most pleasant place with the whitewashed alleys. It seems boring and he seems upset about going there.

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  69. I think that Daisy will stay with Tom because she wants to stay supported and safe.

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  70. I think Daisy will stay with Gatsby because she loves him so much. She is unhappy with Tom and truly loves Gatsby. She sees that Gatsby respects her and loves her for who she is.

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  71. I think that Gatsby is in love with the idea of Daisy, but he'll find out later that she can't live up to his high expectations and that he is not in love with Daisy herself.

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  72. Dana, can't Gatsby do the same?

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  73. One more thing I noticed in this chapter was Gatsby's clumsiness in their meeting. He is pale at the start showing that he is not perfect, just like everyone in our world and this world. Gatsby knocks over the clock while they meeting. The first thing that came to my mind was that Gatsby was wishing that he could go back in time to when him and Daisy were in love. Also, I think that he wants to stop the time that he is spending with Daisy because he is truly in love with her.

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  74. Why do you think Gatsby runs away when Daisy arrives at Nick's house? would it just be because of his nerves because he hasn't see her for a long time or is he afraid of what she thinks of him? He eventually knocks on the door in the rain.

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  75. Mallory, I think that Gatsby was terrified that Daisy had changed and she would not live up to what he has made her out to be in his head. He has completely glorified her and finding out that she is not as she remembered her would be devastating to him.

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  76. Corbin- Can't Gatsby stay supported? I think he's better off with out her. She's no good. (In my opinion!) :)

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  77. I agree with samantha in the inner circle i think that it is a really hard decision to leave Tom or not because of her daughter. Sure Gatsby could fill in and be a step father of Daisy's daughter but it is not the same as having your real birth father around. It would hurt her daughter so much to leave Tom and thats why i think she is hesitant to do it as well as the fact that it would hurt her social status

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  78. Daisy is going to leave Tom and since its a murder, Tom will then procceed to murder Gatsby.

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  79. Tom would be furious at Daisy if she cheated on him, even though he is having affair, because it would shove his own faults back in his face and that would bring up feelings of guilt which I don't think Tom wants to deal with.

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  80. I think that Tom would be mad if she cheated on him even though he has done it himself. She is his and only his. At this time this wasn't as big of a deal as it is now. in fact it was quite common. But for the woman to do that would be unacceptable.

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  81. I agree with Dana that she would stay with Tom because she wants to stay supportive and safe. But there could be a chance that finally her love for Gatsby would over power that and she would end with up him because she realizes how Tom doesn't treat her right but Gatsby does.

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  82. I believe Gatsby ran way when Daisy arrived because he was so nervous to meet her again and he didn't want her to think that he arranged the meeting on purpose so that he could see her. He wanted it to seem like he had no idea Daisy would be there. I feel Gatsby also wanted to think about what he was doing first.

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  83. I think that Daisy cries over Gatsby's shirts because they symbolized what she could have had.

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  84. To answer Corbins question and to add onto Xavias comment it seems that women were always seen as innocent, graceful, and well mannered and if they ever stepped out of this unspoken rule of society at the time, they would have been looked down on. However in the privacy of their own homes and personal lives, they were none of those things at all and daisy is a prime example.

    To comment on Grants question that said "The meeting between Gatsby and Daisy was inevitable, was it a good idea?" I do not this their meeting was inevitable. In fact having the meeting would have made so many things easier and though Gatsby set it up to be reunited with his "true love" too much time had passed and they were two completely different people. I think one of the reasons Gatsby was so nervous was because he knew deep down that things would most likely not be the same and that she might not like the new and improved Gatsby, or worse... he might not like the new Daisy.

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  85. Andrew I agree with what you said. I think Gatsby was nervous and worried what Daisy would think of him and didn't know what to say or do. A interesting quote I found was when Nick was talking to Gatsby and Daisy. “It's an old clock,” I told them idiotically. I think we all believed for a moment that it had smashed in pieces on the floor” (pg.86 Fitzgerald). This is shows how nervous Gatsby was and how nervous he becomes around Daisy. Do you think he will ever change and be able to talk to her and not have it be awkward like it is now between them? They do reconnect a little but things are not back to where they used to be. Do you think Gatsby planed this from the beginning, of having Nick move next to him so that he can meet Daisey again?

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  86. In chapter five we see how long Gatsby has been waiting for Daisy. He has counted the years and months since they have been together. He truly did love her and had been hoping to somehow meet her again. However, it seemed that he was afraid when he actually got the chance. He became very nervous which I think was because he believed that her feelings had changed. I agree with Chris about his clumsiness. Chris mentioned how by knocking over the clock, it represented how Gatsby wanted to try to stop time and retrieve the past. I thought what Grant said was interesting. “Gatsby is in love with the idea of Daisy, but he will find out later that she can’t live up to his expectations…” I thought this was interesting because it appears to me that he is very much in love with her, but how could he only love her for the idea of her? What exactly does that mean? That he loves what he could never truly have, the idea that she is “out of his league”? Maybe, but I think he is out of Daisy’s league, or was. He didn’t have what she wanted and that is why she did not wait for him and married someone who could support her. And to answer Shay’s final question, I think that the fact that Gatsby planned for Nick to move next to him would be improbable. To think that he knew that Nick knew Daisy is hard to believe. To answer Morgan’s questions, I think that the way that Gatsby acts around Daisy and the fact that he has been waiting five years and hasn’t even thought about another woman, suggests that he truly wants her and has been working hard to get her back even though now she is out of reach.

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