Friday, December 4, 2009

The Final Fishbowl: "A Good Man Is Hard To Find"

Hello, outer circle!

A few suggestions for our final fishbowl:

1. Avoid repeating what has already been said; when the conversation gets repetitive, it's time to start a new thread of conversation.

2. As we near the end of the discussion, try to address the work's larger themes. What does the author want us to take from this story? What was her intent in writing it? What is this story really about?

3. Enjoy!

70 comments:

  1. Why do you think it was easier to empathize with The Misfit than the family?

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  2. Is The Misfit the grandmothers child? Towards the end of the story she says "Why you're one of my babies" or is she just saying that to try and turn him in the right direction?

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  3. Corbin- yes, she said that towards the end and i think she really meant it but it was kind of confusing. If she wasn't being honest and he wasn't her kid, then he wouldn't have shot her like he was scared.

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  4. Why do you think the Grandmother say "why you're one of my own babies. You're one of my own children!" on the second to last page?

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  5. This story seems to be relating to the idea of "living for today." In the last moments of her life, the grandmother starts realizing her faith and praying as an act of self preservation to try and make it out alive. "'She would have been a good woman,' The Misfit said,'if it had been somebody there to shoot her every minute of her life'" (O'Connor 13). This even explains the perspective of the criminal and how he noticed what she was doing. The risk of death made her try to make the best out of her last moments. The misfits comment is explaining how she would have lived a better life if she lived like there was no tomorrow everyday

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  6. I think that it was easier to sympathize more with the misfit because he had a troubled life and seemed to have tragedy in it. The kids in the family were extremely rude and the rest of the family were kind of obnoxious.It made it kind of hard to feel too bad when they were killed.

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  7. sorry corbin didnt know you just asked that question

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  8. Angelica! I think there could have been a lot behind that. I think maybe he actually was one of her kids, or like Corbin said maybe she was just scared, or maybe she was just in panic and would have said anything to get out of dying since the rest of her family got killed.

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  9. Do you think the grandmother has some form of memory loss? When Bobby Lee and Hiram came back with Bailies shirt she couldn't remember where she'd seen it before. "The grandmother couldn't name what the shirt reminded her of." (O'Connor 11). Also it took her a long time to remember where she had seen the mans [The Misfit] face before.

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  10. While reading the story i got the impression the family didnt like the grandmother very much. maybe the grandmother called the misfit "her baby" because maybe she felt a stronger connection and more accepted by him then her own family?

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  11. Dana- If he is her son how could he possibly kill her? And do you think the grandmother knew that the Misfit was her child all along when she kept saying that he is from good blood.Also was that the reason the grandmother was so afraid to go on the trip because she knew that The Misfit was her son?

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  12. I think the reason the Misfit shot the grandmother was because he realized that what she said was true and he really was her child. He was so horrified that that was his mother add he didnt want her to seem him like that so he killed her.

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  13. I think it was easier to empathize because the children are very outspoken and rude, we never hear much about the mother and the father, and the grandmother got on my nerves with all of her talking. So, when the misfit enters the story and you learn about how he used to be a good man. "I call myself the Misfit because I can't make what all I done wrong fit what all I gone through in punishment" (O'Connor 12). He just seems like a normal man who turned on the wrong path and it could happen to anyone.

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  14. I feel its easier to empathize with the misfit because we start not liking the family toward the end. The dad is mad, the boy throws fits, the girl is completely rude to the people at the restaurant, and the grandma lies just so she can get her way. The author puts in our head that these are bad people and they don't really deserve to live.

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  15. Samantha-- that is another interesting point to pull up. They even got lost on the way and the grandma's loss of memory caused them to get off track and caused the accident. "The horrible thought she had had before the accident was that the house she had remembered so vividly was not in Georgia but in Tennessee" (O'Connor 7).

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  16. Samantha--

    The family basically brings their death upon themselves. The kids are bratty, the dad is arrogant and the mother is pretty much absent. The only person who seems to have any virtue is the Grandmother. The Misfit actually explains some motives and emotions so it creates a connection with him.

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  17. Corbin- I think that he freaked out becuase he realized she knew it was him and he just shock her out of panic. I think that she did know all along thats why she told the story but then when she realized where she was she felt bad about it. And I think she was scared because she did know but I don't think she could control the situation because Bailey pretty much made her go to Florida.

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  18. Ya Sam I do think she had some memory loss because it also took her a while to remember where she had seen the misfits face before.That also might have the reason why she wasn't extremely upset when he son was taken into the forest because she probably forgot he was killed.

    Why did the mother want to go into the forest to join her husband after hearing two gun shots?

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  19. I have to respectfully disagree with Jeff because the kids were kind of annoying but they were just kids and the parents didn't do anything to deserve to die where as the misfit is a murderer.

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  20. Thanks for the clarification Dana!!

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  21. How is having good blood and not being common related?

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  22. I'm wondering why we learn so little about the grandmother, not even her name. Any ideas on this?

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  23. do you think the misfit recognized the grandmother

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  24. Jeff-

    I agree 100% with you I felt that as the story progressed I felt the original image of the family changed to reveal almost just this awful family. Do you think that maybe this was criticizing some part of our society?

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  25. Karly-- I think that because this is a gothic story they were trying to leave out certain elements to make it more creepy and make you wonder who she really is the whole story. It makes you question why things happen to certain people and why they are put in situations.

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  26. casey- i dont think the family "brought their deaths upon themselves" the misfit didnt know that they were bratty, i feel like he just saw them and he has evil intentions with pretty much anyone. I think the fact the family was so bratty made me less sympathetic to their deaths though.

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  27. Angelica, I thought that it was very strange that after hearing the gun shots, the mom decided to go into the woods anyway when she should know that she would have been killed. Maybe she was so afraid she didn't care what the outcome of going in the woods would be. She probably had hope in her mind that her husband and son was still alive. That was probably the only thing on her mind was to go and find out if her family was ok.

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  28. Andrew i understand that, but all of the characters were portrayed badly even though they didn't really do anything wrong. I'm only saying thats why its easier to empathize with the misfit.

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  29. Did anyone else notice how the setting is not dark and doesn't seem to be gothic related at all until the accident? in the beginning many just average events are occurring, "Sitting on the sofa, feeding the baby apricots out of his jar..." (O'Connor 1) or again further on in the story, "She pointed out the interesting details in the scenery...the blue granite...the brilliant red clay banks slightly streaked with purple... various crops that made rows of green lace-work...trees full of silver-white sunlight...sparkled"(O'Connor 2). All of that description is very colorful and does not go along with a gothic theme of black or darkness. Why do you think O'Connor uses this?

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  30. Angelica-

    Maybe she wanted to go in the forest because if she knew she was gonna die maybe she wanted to be with her family when she did, or maybe she had the hope that her family was still alive and not had not been killed.

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  31. I think the grandmother was right the whole time. "Shut up Bobby Lee, It's no real pleasure in life." The Misfit said this and it just proves that he does have good blood within him. And I agree with trace because he realized it was his mother he was in shock. "God never made a finer woman than my mother and my daddy's heart was pure gold." In a way he felt ashamed to have his good mother see him like this. He shot her out of feeling ashamed of himself.

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  32. i think the grandma had a religion but the rest of the family kind of separated away from their religion..

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  33. Nat- I agree with you about not agreeing with Casey. The family couldn't have brought it upon themselves but do you think maybe the grandmother put it upon herself?

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  34. I agree with Andrew.. Nobody deserves to be murdered even if they are somewhat bad and annoying people, it doesn't justify the Misfit.

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  35. i agree with Andrew about how the story didn't seem Gothic at all it seems like a bunch of mis occurring event even after the accident the setting was still very colorful with a cloudless sky.

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  36. I think the reason the Misfit became a murderer was to get back at society for being accused of something he didnt do. He wasn't a bad man until he was put in prison from no reason. I think he even felt like he was giving society a lesson

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  37. Andrew- They do this so that way in the end of the story when they go turn to a gothic setting it is more dramatic and scary in comparison to the beginning of the story. Its like the uncanny because its so recognizable at first but then scary.

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  38. Natalie & Dana--

    I was not referring to a direct relationship between the Misfit and the family, I was referring to the concept of Karma, because they treated each other so badly, they brought death upon themselves.

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  39. Andrew, I think that the contrast between the two settings makes what happens more shocking. The fact that in the beginning they seem to have a normal life and are just going on a normal family vacation feels in a comfortable place for the reader and then as the setting gets more isolated and gothic it adds suspense. I think this build up of the setting alone adds a lot to this story.

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  40. what do you think is the moral of this story because i didn't find one

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  41. Angelica- good call! I agree with you on that. Do you think that not only is he punishing society but is he punishing his family too? Or at least the grandmother?

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  42. Andrew also with that O'Connor keeps having the characters looking up into the sky and saying that the sky was empty no clouds or anything. "Don't see no sun but don't see no cloud neither." (O'Connor page 9) Do you think O'Connor suggest that people in todays world are empty?

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  43. I thought it was interesting how they asked the woman if she wanted to go into the woods, whereas with Bailey they basically demanded it. I also found it strange how much humanity was in The Misfit. For example "[The Misfit] looked up suddenly and then away deep into the woods as if he were embarrassed again. 'I'm sorry I don't have on a shirt before you ladies..." (O'Connor 10). He seems to have more heart than would be expected from a murderer. "The Misfit's eyes were red-rimmed and pale and defenseless-looking." after he shot the grandmother.

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  44. I disagree with the misfit when he says at the end(talking about the grandma), "She would have been a good woman, if it had been somebody there to shoot her every minute of her life", because I feel the moments that define people are the moments they face with the most pressure. She was a good woman at the end of the novel before her eventual demise, when she had enormous amounts of pressure.

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  45. Dana- I think that because the grandma wanted to go see the "house" she led her family to the misfit. I dont think she did it intentionally but i think its ironic that she was the character who didnt want to go on vacation because she was scared of the misfit and if it wasn't for her wanting to see the house they never would have ran into him

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  46. Nat- That's kind of what Xavia said in the inner circle. Nice connection!

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  47. dana- ahhh i get it. The uncanny is a perfect word for it. The familiarity of the family and just how their lives were average led to the gothic themes and how gloomy it was. They kind of foreshadow the crash and the events that were to come here,"They turned on to the dirt road and the car raced roughly along in a swirl of pink dust.... they would be in a red depression with the dust-coated trees looking down on them" (O'Connor 6). and sure enough, the crash happens not two paragraphs later. It just keeps getting more unfamiliar, making the whole story quite uncanny.

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  48. who do you guys think was the host the misfit or the grandma

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  49. At the end of the story the Misfit says, "She would be a good woman if it had been someone there to shoot her every minute of her life." He is saying that people can be really good and sound like they are great people when their life is in danger but then when they are just living everyday normally, they don't have any of these values or morals that they show when their life is on the line.

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  50. I'm not sure how he would be punishing his family but he was punishing the family in the story because he saw them as a symbol for what he thinks society has become. The grandmother was stereotypical because she didn't seem very religious until she thought she was going to die. Also he might have shot her because she was using any excuse she could to escape death and that made him angry.

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  51. Brian, I think it is a warning to the readers that you might be "a good man", but you can end up doing awful things that don't seem like you.
    At the end though the Misfit says in response to the boys saying it was fun to shoot the family, "It's no real pleasure in life." It's scary to think that you could end up shooting people with no real purpose or even pleasure from it.

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  52. Andrew I feel she is using the uncanny to make the ending more shocking by choosing to use a calm and completely non-scary setting, and turning it into a grave site.

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  53. I think that the Grandmother really was the Misfit's mother. on the first page she says, "Yes and what would you do if this fellow, the Misfit caught you?" I think that she has a bad memory and cant really remember him very well. But she remembers something about him she just can't figure it out. In the story it seems that she is the only one who knows about the Misfit. When they go and eat at the tower the people there don't know about the Misfit and neither does the family. So right there that shows you that she probably feels like she knows him she just couldn't remember. I also think that the reason why she wanted to see the house was that she knew she had a memory down that road and she wanted to remember what it was. I think that she made up the house to get the family to go there so she could remember her memories. In part of the story she says, "there was a secret:-panel in this house, she said craftily, not telling the truth..." She lied about the house because she wanted to go there and when the Misfit found them she finally was able to remember him. I also think that before he showed up the reason why she felt really bad was that she remembered her memories there were of the misfit, and she knew she had led her family into danger.

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  54. I found it a little ironic that the grandmother was being so protective of the family and trying to keep them away from The Misfit. But in the end, their car wouldn't have rolled off of the road if it wasn't for her telling them that it would be educational for the kids. If they hadn't of gone down that road, (the wrong road) they wouldn't have crashed and they wouldn't of been found by The Misfit and his accomplices.

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  55. What do you think was the point of the grandma's stories?

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  56. Andrew- I think the author did a really good job of leading up to the suspense of it all and I think the use of the setting and the themes that you have brought up are really good details of how he did it. Do you think there is a specific reason he wanted to SHOCK readers so much? Or am I crazy and maybe the suspense wasn't as noticeable for everyone else and I just think he lead into the climax well.

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  57. Corbin, i completely agree with you. "'A good man is hard to find,' Red Sammy said. 'Everything is getting terrible. I remember the day you could go off and leave your screen door unlatched. Not no more." (O'Connor 5). This shows the degeneration of human civilization and human tendency to evil.

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  58. Whats the point of this story? Do you think that the author was trying to get somewhere or try to tell us something?

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  59. Why is it that they never mention how or why the car crashed? They were in the middle of no where on a dirt road... I'm just wondering how this happend.

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  60. I disagree with Jeff because a person is defined by the way they live their life but in the last few minutes of the grandmothers life she was acting how she thought she should have acted her whole life

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  61. Emma- I definitely agree with you on that. That's a good point that really makes sense.

    Throughout the entire story, the Grandmother has certain memory lapses. For example: "The horrible thought she had had before the accident was that the house she had remembered so vividly was not in Georgia but in Tennessee."

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  62. Why do you think the kids acted upset when nobody in the car accident died, "But nobody's killer, June Star said with disappointment." why would they be disappointed by that? Also they were acting happy about being in a car crash. Why do you think they felt this way?

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  63. I think the author's philosophy, through The Misfit's character, is that you have to decide whether or not you believe in God, and that everything else in life is influenced by that decision. "If He [Jesus] did what He said, then it's nothing for you to do but throw away everything and follow Him, and if He didn't, then it's nothing for you to do but enjoy the few minutes you got left the best way you can..." I also think the author is trying to convey hopelessness and the overwhelming dreariness of life without purpose. The end of that quote says"...by killing somebody or burning down his house or doing some other meanness to him. No pleasure but meanness." (O'Connor 12)

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  64. I don’t think that she was saying her grandchild or he child was the misfit but was trying to make him feel as if he was a part of something. I agree with Andrew she did seem to become a better person in her last moments and how she would have lived a better life if she lived like there was no tomorrow. How would her life have changed if she lived like there was no tomorrow? The Grandmother in the family I think was the last to die because she was the most In common with the misfit. I say that because the family didn’t treat their grandmother with much respect and she was the “Misfit” of their family. I think she wanted to go into the woods because she if she was going to die she wanted to die with her family which would make her part of something and not another misfit. The only gothic part I got was when they crashed and the car slowly rolled up to them. Also what was the monkey about at the dinner? Do you think the Grandmother would have told the family that the house was somewhere else if she had another chance?

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