Monday, April 12, 2010

Gatsby Fishbowl #6: Chapter 7

Reminder: If you're not caught up with the reading, take this time to read quietly. When you are caught up, add an extended comment with a textual passage to this blog; e-mail your comment to me as well.

For those of you who ARE participating today, remember that you're aiming to bring in a passage or two from the reading. Take your time with your comments and explore your thoughts carefully.

Keep up your wonderful work!

49 comments:

  1. I am so confused about why Tom was trying to sell Gatsby's car to Wilson. Is that even what happened? Help me out here.

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  2. Why does Tom care so much that Daisy is having an affair?

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  3. I think myrtle's death was quite ironic because it showed how Tom and Mr. Wilson were in the same boat, they had both learned of their wives' affairs and their lives were seeming to fall apart. Plus it interconnects Tom and Mr. Wilson because myrtle was Tom's mistress and Mr. Wilson's wife.

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  4. Dana,
    My understanding is that Wilson needs money so Tom is giving him his car so that he can sell it for money.

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  5. Grant-Tom cares that Daisy is having an affair because he is a control freak. He also cares because he just lost his other girl (Myrtle) and doesn't want to lose his wife too.

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  6. Dana: I think Tom was just joking when he said he was going to sell Gatsby's car to him. In the end Tom never got to sell his car to Wilson because of the incident.

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  7. "Her voice is full of money,"
    What do you think Gatsby meant by this?

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  8. Grant- I think deep down Tom truly loved Daisy and even though he cheats on her, it hurts him if she cheats on him.

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  9. I think Wilson thought the only way to control his wife before they moved was to lock her away because he didnt trust her at all. It couldve also been a way for him to calm down from his anger and grief about finding out she was cheating on him.

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  10. Grant, thats a very good point to bring up. Tom is having an affair with Myrtle and yet he seems to envy Daisy and Gatsby's relationship. Maybe Tom is realizing that he actually does love Daisy and he feels guilty for cheating on her.

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  11. Grant, I think that Tom cares so much that Daisy is having an affair because he is actually feeling the pain of being cheated on. Although it is questionable whether or not Tom really loves Daisy, I think that it hurts him to have someone cheat on him no matter who it is.

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  12. I think Tom cares so much that Daisy is havingg an affair because he always likes to be in control and if people found out that Daisy was having an affair then it would seem like hes not even in control of his own wife.

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  13. Does Daisy actually love Tom more than she loves Gatsby?

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  14. Grant- I agree with Aaron even though Tom is running a double standard he still cares very deeply for daisy.

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  15. Ang- I agree with you. I think that Wilson was really shocked, just like Tom was struck when he found out about Daisy. When Tom found out they went to town. I think they left that way they would be in public and they wouldn't do anything they would regret.

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  16. what's Myrtles importance in the story if she just ends up dying before we fully knew her?

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  17. The car accident seems like a Deja-Vu of what happened with Tom and his mistress on his and Daisy's honeymoon. Do you think Wilson will find out that Gatsby is the reason for the accident and think that Gatsby is the man who Myrtle has been cheating on him with?

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  18. Does Tom really love Daisy? "'She does, though. The trouble is that sometimes she gets foolish ideas in her head and doesn't know what she is doing.' He nodded sagely.'And what's more I love Daisy too. Once in a while I go off on a spree and make a fool of myself, but I always come back, and in my heart I love her all the time.'" This is the second time in the story were Tom shows his love for Daisy he even goes so far to say he does stupid stuff and ruin his name. Tom is clearly fighting for her, and he truly loves her but is saying that everyone gets foolish at times. For a man to call himself foolish in the 1920's seems so unreal at least from what I've read so far.

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  19. On page 132, there was a quote that said, "With an effort her wit rose faintly, "We'll meet you on some corner. I'll be the man smoking two cigarettes." Daisy is saying this to Tom and I think that it symbolizes Tom's affair. Daisy says She'll be the man 'smoking two cigarettes' and I think she said this to kind of sarcastically show Tom that she knows what he's been doing behind her back.

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  20. Did Daisy hit Myrtle intentionally? And if so, was it her way of telling Tom, "if I can't have an affair, neither can you?"

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  22. I think that Tom never stopped loving Daisy, but like we learned in the beginning he is never content with something for a long period of time so he just got bored with daisy but now that he is about to lose her, he realizes how much he really does love her.

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  23. I think that Tom loves Daisy but he is someone who doesn't mind hurting her, but he doesn't want to get hurt by her. So he thinks it's okay to cheat on Daisy but when Daisy does it back he gets really jealous and doesn't wanna deal with it because it hurts him.

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  24. I think that Myrtle shows the end result of what cheating does to you, even though it doesn't physically kill you mentally it can tear you apart

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  25. Grant- I think Daisy loves Gatsby more because he cares for her so much more. And she is hurt by Tom so she is going to Gatsby. That is why on page 140 Daisy says," I did love him once..." (Fitzgerald 140). The him in the sentence is Tom.

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  26. Brian- Myrtle shows the relationship between Tom and Wilson and how all of the relationships, and the cheating, and the lying can come back to get all the characters in the story. She also represents the bonds between all the characters and how they are broken.

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  27. Yea it was an intentional hit for sure.

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  28. What tension do you think will occur between Daisy and Gatsby? It seems that Daisy has lost her affections for Gatsby as if she loves Tom again. But now Gatsby is going to take the blame for the accident. What will happen to Gatsby??

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  29. I feel like tom doesn't really love Daisy I believe he loves saying he has a trophy wife, to show of to others.

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  30. "He discovered that Myrtle had some sort of life apart from him in another world and the shock had made him physically sick. I stared at him and then at Tom, who had made a parallel discovery less than an hour before- and it occurred to me that there was no difference between men, in intelligence or race, so profound as the difference between the sick and the well" (Fitzgerald 131).

    Why do you think that this realization is so important to the story? What is your feelings towards Tom at this point?

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  31. Tom is actually reacting to something about his relationship with Daisy. For some reason he felt like his fling with Mertyl did not mean anything for his relationship with Daisy, but now that she is involved with Gatsby, he is effected. This is helping him realize what he actually has with his wife and I think she is starting to as well.

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  32. Grant-
    To answer your first question I believe Tom cares that Daisy is cheating on him because he does not want his image hurt by it. He is mad that Daisy does not respect him and that he cannot control her. He does not mind causing the problem but he doesn't want to be on the other end of it. He feels humiliated by having his wife cheating on him as if he is not good enough for her. All he has is his self pride which is being attacked by Daisy cheating on him.

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  33. I think that Daisy does somewhat care if he only kissed Gatsby while he wasn't around and some part of her doesn't care because she is having an affair because Tom is having an affair.

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  34. I think that Daisy loves both Tom and Gatsby and is conflicted by it. But I also think that she feels that she needs to do what is right according to society. She wants to do what will keep her from being looked down upon. But I think that deep down she loves Gatsby more than Tom.

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  35. I think we are seeing the first major weaknesses of Gatsby. He is coming off as a mean person while he is defending himself and Daisy against Tom.

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  36. In this book it seems like nothing is a big deal...Some examples are the affairs that are going on. When Tom finds out Gatsby is having an affair with his wife and he is in the same room as Gatsby. In the world today there is no way Tom would not try to hurt Gatsby. Why do you think this is?

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  37. Andrew- I think Daisy's emotions are so out of control that we just don't know what is going to happen. I also think that Daisy and Gatsby have a little tension because of all they have been through that day.

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  38. I think Tom is one of those people that doesn't care if they hurt people but don't want to be hurt. I think that he still loves her so he doesn't want her to leave. Thats why he is afraid of getting hurt by Daisy leaving him.

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  39. I think that Daisy did intentionally hit Myrtle, I don't think she planned it though. I think she was filled with anger and emotions and when she saw Myrtle run out into the road she was so emotionally upset that she couldn't control herself and just kept going and hit her. I think she knew that Myrtle was her husbands mistress, if she didn't I think she would have stopped the car rather than continuing to drive.

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  40. Grant-
    In answering your question about Daisy hitting Myrtle with the car, I believe that Daisy did do it intentionally. She did to tell Tom that she did know about his affairs and that she was not going to pretend to be dumb anymore. I feel that she came out of her shell a little bit by finally standing up for herself and making a statement to Tom. She wanted Tom to know that the "laws of love" go both ways and that he cannot expect her to be faithful if he won't be faithful to her.

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  41. Andrew,
    I think that Gatsby is going to slowly self-destruct as he starts to realize that his love affair with Daisy is over. I think that he will try to make a desperate final attempt to try to get Daisy to love him again, but when it fails, his life will fall apart. Gatsby has based his entire life since meeting Daisy around her and when he loses her, his life will change dramatically. As far as the accident, I think that he will get in a lot of trouble when he comes out and takes the blame for it, but in Gatsby's mind, it will be worth it because he will think that it will be a way for him to show Daisy how much he loves her.

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  42. Chris-Tom didn't think that cheating on Daisy was bad because he didnt actually love Myrtle and would've never left Daisy for her but he is getting jealous and angry with Daisy for having an affair because he is afriad that he might lose her because she might start loving Gatsby more.

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  43. I think that Tom wants to have everything. He also wants what he can't have. He thinks hes invincible and can do whatever he wants without paying for his actions. I think both he and Gatsby have made themselves believe that they are in love with Daisy but they both don't really want her. They want to have the perfect woman and Daisy can't be that.

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  44. I think that Tom loves Daisy. And both of them are just trying to get back what is theirs. I think that honestly the only reason that Gatsby wants Daisy back is just because he wants what was his. They both love her in different ways.

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  45. I think that Daisy truly loves both Tom and Gatsby. Tom has been there all along for her. He was a rich man that wanted her and I think that she fell in love with that. Tom and Daisy have such a history full of both good and bad things, while Daisy and Gatsby only have a history of romance. Although Gatsby seems more romantic to Daisy because that's all she's known with him, Tom is real for her and their love has just warn out over the years.

    Tom on the other hand, I believe that he only has ever loved Daisy and not Myrtle. Myrtle was an exciting adventure for him and she provided him with mystery that he longed for. Daisy is the mother of his child and I think that Tom and Daisy have ties that can't be broken no matter how much they try to ignore them.

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  46. do you think that there will be major consequences of Daisy killing Myrtle? and will Wilson find out she killed her?

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  47. Of course tom loves Daisy maybe he doesn't love her like Gatsby does but he does love her. And honestly i think Gatsby is almost worse, would you rather deal with the skeletons of someone close to you or live in the shadow of a person that you are supposed to be but never can be

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  48. I think Chapter 7 is the most important chapter in the book. Gatsby and Daisy's affair is exposed to Tom and strangely, he isnt as upset about it as I expected. Maybe because he knows he's been having affairs as well? I think finding out about Daisy's affair, Tom has more respect for Daisy. He now knows she wont just stay faithful to him and be his "trophy wife" and I think it almost gives hope for their relationship working in the future. I am confused how Mr. Wilson found out about Myrtle having an affair, and what the point of "locking her up" was. I dont think by moving her to the west, she would change "her ways". Myrtle ran towards the yellow car because she thought it was Tom. The chapter ends with Gatsby watching over Daisy's house, a flashback to the beginning of the book, when Gatsby was watching over Daisy. Gatsby loves Daisy a lot and is willing to die for her. That is shown in Chapter 7.

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  49. Dana I think Tom was doing this because he was probably going to sell his car to Wilson anyway but decided he could just sell Gatsby’s and be a jerk. It would just be to mess with him because money is not a problem for either of them. Angelica I agree with you about how Tom doesn’t care for Myrtle like he cares for Daisy. He loves Daisy still but is afraid that he might lose her to Gatsby. Daisy confesses that she liked Tom a long time ago but doesn’t like him anymore, “Even alone I can’t say I never loved him,” she admitted in a pitiful voice. “It wouldn’t be true” (pg.133 Fitzgerald). She used to love him but things just aren’t the way they used to be.
    Ch 6.
    In chapter 6 a young writer comes and talks with Gatsby, what is this about? What is so important about his past that he gets interviewed? Tom and Gatsby don’t get along even before Tom realizes that Daisy is having a affair with him, so why does he show up to his party? Is Tom like this all the time when they are out, how he leaves Daisy because he is having a better time somewhere else? How is Tom so blind about Daisy that he leaves and doesn’t check back everyone once and a while? I feel like if you just left the party and went on a walk someone would notice do you think Tom is just blind or doesn’t care? Gatsby is getting close to having Daisy back to where they used to be because he gets a kiss from her. “So he waited, listening for a moment longer to the tuning- fork that had been struck upon a star. Then he kissed her” (pg.110 Fitzgerald). Will this kiss change anything and do you think that Daisy is living up to Gatsby’s images about who she is and how she acts?

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